What the Hell Is Happening in Texas?! (Half the Answer #75, with Gwen Howerton)

What the hell is going on in Texas? Trent and Caitlin welcome Houston culture reporter Gwen Howerton about the Texas senate primaries, censorship in prisons, and the state of LGBTQ+ rights in the Lone Star State.

Half the Answer can be heard on Spotify, on Apple, on YouTube, on Amazon, and elsewhere via its RSS feed.

Resources:

https://bsky.app/profile/kissphoria.bsky.social

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/cornyn-paxton-texas-senate-ai-22082110.php

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/texas-prison-book-ban-22079345.php

Transcript

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:00:31]
Well, the horrors persist, and yet we continue to drag our corpses across the timeline. That's a quote from yours truly. I'm gonna, like, embroider it on a pillow or something, I don't know. The rest of the sentence being like towards the inevitable heat death of the universe, to which, frankly, I am looking forward. It's a longer pillow. Yeah, this is Half The Answer, where understanding a question is half the answer. And yeah, that is the intro we're gonna go with. I'm Caitlin Green, and I am one of your co-hosts. And of course, with me is Trent R. Nelson, my favorite co-host in the whole world. And we are here again to share with you some interesting information and to giggle through the horrors. How are you, Trent?

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:00:37]
So it's, it's really echoing our lives.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:00:40]
I would buy that on a pillow. That's great.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:00:51]
I can't, I can't wait.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:01:19]
Oh, you know, all we do is giggle through the horrors, and I am maintaining. Found some fun Italian disco recently. I think I sent that to you earlier today. That was a good way to wake up, absolutely. But, you know, Caitlin, the horrors, they persist for us all, right, but also they persist across the individual states, and there are some unpleasant places, and not because of the brilliant people, but because of the administrators, right? Let's put it as it is. You drive through any of the states like, oh, this is beautiful. You stop in a gas station and get a Monster. All the people are lovely. What's wrong? Their organizational tendencies are terrible, right? Very bad, very bad. Well, today, we are back in Texas, as we have gone so many times before, and we are speaking with the wonderful Gwen Howerton. It is not always sunny in Texas, no matter what they try to argue, had to do it. I'm sorry, Gwen. They are a Houston culture reporter for chron.com and, well, the work that Gwen has been doing has been wonderful. And by that I mean important, right? Because the topics are not great, but that's exactly why we had you on. Gwen, thank you so much for joining us.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:01:29]
Uh huh, pretty good.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:01:42]
There's hot spots for sure.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:02:13]
Thanks for having me. I'm stoked. You know, I am always happy to talk about the horrors of my home state. You know.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:02:53]
Yeah, yeah, what are we gonna do? Right? If we don't, like, look at them, then they're just happening behind us, and that's worse, so I guess we gotta watch it.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:03:01]
You know the motto? I didn't go there, but, you know, I think a lot about the University of Texas, their motto is, what starts here, changes the world. And I think that applies to Texas a lot. Like, stuff that happens here, I always tell people, like, hey, five years, like, that's going to be you, you know? Do you know? So pay attention.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:03:18]
Right, right, and that's exactly why we had you on, because, well, we need to learn about this stuff before the five years lapses, right? So that we can try to head her off at the pass. So, I mean, let's jump right in. We're going to cover politics today. We're going to cover what I would consider to be abuse against inmates by trying to restrict books to them. And we're going to talk about LGBTQ AI stuff too, because there are horrors all across every nook and cranny. Look, there's something terrible. So, Gwen, can we start off by talking about slop? Let's talk about slop, because while much of our constituency has most likely been paying attention to the Democratic Senate race between James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett, well, the Republican Senate race has been one of those jars that you open up and there's a snake inside. Right? What the hell is going on in that race between Paxton and Cornyn, two individuals that, to paraphrase Harry Truman, I hope they both lose.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:04:02]
Look at what, yeah, let's do it. I love it.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:04:50]
Well, yeah, I mean, what it, like, this is the thing where I think, you know, I've lived in Texas long enough where there's a lot of intrigue about Democrats, just because it's like, are these people ever going to get it together? But, you know, I have been long more fascinated with the Republican side. I think because, you know, these are the people that have been in power for, you know, 30-something years. And I think the divisions really among them, you know, is very interesting. So, you know, you talk about like Paxton and Cornyn. These are two guys who like, fundamentally, if you were to put everything they believe on paper side by side, it would be probably the same, but it's stylistic, right? And so you're seeing this, you know, John Cornyn, who is about as establishment as they come. He's been in the Senate for 20-something years. Before that, he was, you know, he held various statewide offices. I think he was on the state Supreme Court. He was the attorney general, you know. And then you have Ken Paxton, who is this, like, kind of, I think he was one of, if not the first, statewide official anywhere to endorse Trump. So he was a huge, like, early MAGA adopter. And so, you know, now they are locked in this absolutely expensive and mind-numbing primary against each other that's going to a runoff in May. So there was the first round last month, and neither of them got 50% of the vote, so it's going to go to a runoff, and they are going all in on AI slop.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:05:40]
Cool. I mean, you know, we're no stranger to the AI slop, like a Republican propaganda thing, right? Because the White House account loves to do all kinds of slop. But these guys are really, they're like, all in on slop, I guess. Yeah.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:06:37]
Yeah, and this is, like, really fascinating to me, because what I would call, I would say, like, I wrote about this the other day, but John Cornyn, he put out, his campaign put out this ad that it's like an AI parody of the B-52s song, "Love Shack." And you know, about how Ken Paxton is like a womanizer who cheats on his wife. I mean, it was terrible. Like, I was watching it. I would categorize it almost as like Facebook Boomer slop. Like, I was imagining, you know, not my grandmother, but like, a grandmother somewhere watching it.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:07:10]
Just say my grandmother, it's fine. It's mine.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:07:20]
She's got more discernment. No, it's okay. I have a grandmother who's, she's a step-grandmother, so I don't have to, like, you know, really claim her as having contributed, but she's got no discernment at all. Like she's from way back, right? She was like, emailing me, like, Obama's gonna take "In God We Trust" off the coins. Like she was that lady, you know, she was like, you have to forward this email to five people, or else Obama's gonna do that. Or like, they saw him holding the book, The End of America, I think it was called, which was like, about, you know, American supremacy. And like, anyway, she saw him, a picture of him holding it, and she's like, see, he is the Taliban. So that's like, that's the level that we're on. Okay? So it's her, it's her. She would be posting this.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:07:57]
Which, like, as, you know, as the child of, like, my parents were Tea Party, big Tea Partiers, like, in, like, '08. So these things that you're saying are very resonant to me. Of, like, oh yeah, you know, I remember, like, I think my dad made me forward that email.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:08:19]
Yeah, we've heard this, yeah, yeah. The thing about the love shack one, though, is, like, as an outsider, it was, like, hard for me to really get the joke without reading, like, your commentary, because I was like, he's in a car and there's like, Mistress One, Mistress Two, like, squares and like, but what is this about? Like him now? Is it a true thing? Is it just something they say, like, what's happening?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:08:46]
Oh, this. So, so let me, let me be clear. This is all true stuff. Like, and this is like, what I find fascinating, right? So, like, Ken Paxton. You know, I could talk for four hours about Ken Paxton, but, gotta be one of the most corrupt, like, state officials in Texas history. Yeah, I think, yeah.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:09:05]
And that's saying something. I mean, that's an outrageous statement, but I think you're right because, I mean, can you kind of go through, like, what he's, I mean, the impeachment and his wife and the whole thing. I mean, it's like outrageous, to be frank.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:09:14]
Give us the highlights, the low lights.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:09:19]
Oh yeah. This will be, like, this episode will just turn into Keeping Up with the Paxtons. But so he was elected Attorney General. And I believe, like, the 20, like, part of that kind of Tea Party, you know, Obama, you know, first Obama term, you know, era. And he and his wife were very, like, close, by the way. Just as an aside, she had a thing where, I believe, she used to be like in a choir, and she would go up on stage and, like, warm up the crowd at his campaign events and sing this song that she wrote where she would say, "I'm a pistol-packing mama and my husband's choose Obama" was the careful thing. You look this up. It's a great song. It's kind of a banger.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:10:04]
Listen, it's not not catchy, man, I don't know what.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:10:10]
And so he got elected Attorney General, and pretty much immediately started, you know, getting into all sorts of trouble. There was a, like, a tax fraud or securities fraud thing that he was, I believe, indicted for in his first term as Attorney General. I don't remember what the deal with this was, or like, the specifics escape me, but like, that was hanging over his head. And then it turned out that, like, from that point until about 2023, he was engaged in this insanely corrupt partnership with this Austin real estate developer named Nate Paul who, like, for reasons that are not clear to anybody, he would just like do all of this stuff to get this guy, like, favorable contracts. He tried to get COVID rules overturned that would have, like, helped this guy's business open. One of the highlights that are in this AI video is they had a joint Uber account. The two of these guys shared an Uber account, as fellas do. And Ken Paxton would use this Uber account to, like, cheat on his wife with his mistress, who he met through this real estate developer, Nate Paul. He was like, friends with her. And so, you know, there was, like, it was this weird thing where he was, like, helping him, Ken Paxton, like, facilitate his own, you know, affair, or whatever. Very funny thing came out, there was, like, a Texas Monthly article during the impeachment trial, when he was impeached by the House of Representatives where, like, they found a bunch of highlights, where, it turns out, in some of these documents, he would Uber from his house to, like, a Church's Chicken, and then from there he would, like, Uber to, like, go see his mistress or whatever, so that it could, you know, have some plausible deniability or whatever. And so that's kind of the thesis. So all of the stuff in the love shack AI ad, it is true. Like, I believe there actually was a love shack, like a condo that he was hanging out with his mistress in. And so, yeah, it's like, kind of like, it's kind of endearing in a way, like, you know, it's like, you know, God forbid a guy have fun. But,

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:12:10]
Cool. That's so fun and sexy. I love that for him.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:12:25]
It's almost like a throwback. It's like, you know, simpler times, right? Like just in my little love den with my mistress.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:12:33]
Yeah, and there was, and so, strangely enough, his wife actually did not divorce him after all of this. Angela Paxton, who is a state senator, she had to sit out his trial in the State Senate, which was, like, very jarring. Like, you know, she's staying, like, sitting there stone-faced, while, you know, all these whistleblowers in his office and, like, people testify against, at one point, his mistress did testify, and she pleaded the fifth the whole time, but like, that was very crazy to watch. But last year she finally divorced him after it came out that he was having an affair with a different woman who is married to a New Orleans, allegedly married to a New Orleans car dealership magnate, and she is also an executive producer of the film God's Not Dead. He was cheating on his wife with her.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:13:22]
Okay? Come on, it's too many things. Gwen, it's too many things.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:13:28]
This is, and I understand he had to go take remedial ethics classes. This guy is, he has his own program, perhaps the answer, like, if we didn't have more to get to, like, again, a deep dive. Unbelievable.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:13:45]
Oh my gosh, we could just do a Ken Paxton episode. What do you learn in remedial ethics classes? It's like you're faced with the opportunity as a married man to sleep with the wife of a powerful businessman. Do you? A, go ahead and do it. B, just tell everyone to be really cool about it. Or, C, don't cheat on your wife with the wife of the powerful businessman. Well, which one do I pick?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:14:02]
So but yeah, like, there was, there was also, like, I remember, because, you know, he was ultimately acquitted. But there was, like, some criminal trial where, like, he did have to do community service. And I forget what the community service was, but it was like something really stupid. Like, it was like he had to volunteer with his own office, or something like that. Like, it was just, I mean, the thing about Ken Paxton is it is just comical level. You know, they're all like, there have been congressmen who, you know, do securities fraud or they have an affair, but like, this guy is on another level. And, you know, I really love it in a way. Like, I really find it fascinating. And so you have this guy who is running against, like I said, the establishment candidate. And so, for some reason that I'm not really clear on, both of these guys have gone all in on AI slop. Because, like, I think, Caitlin, like you talked about, it has kind of become, like, a prevailing Republican aesthetic, right? Like, AI slop is the aesthetic of the new MAGA, you know, regime. But I think it's also just, like, it's really easy. Like, I would imagine, you know, Texas is an expensive place to campaign, and I would imagine that there is some calculation somewhere that just, like, hey, if we just have AI do all this stuff, like, we can save some money somewhere. Yeah.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:15:31]
Right, I can just type it into a prompt, and like Sora or whatever will just make it. So why wouldn't I, right? I don't have any qualms about that, because I have no morals, and I just want to pump out stuff that'll make everybody's uncle go, oh. So there we are.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:15:50]
Right? They don't have artistic integrity, and they're not coming up with artistic geniuses either, right? So they don't have a whole list of folks who are lining up to make beautiful artwork for them. And they're not looking for beautiful artwork. They're looking for a B-52 by an F-15, right, some type of jumping pool on protesters, or, you know, love shack. And it's all true things, and for some reason we're not ashamed of ourselves, right? Yeah. But yeah, no, I was just going to say that's really where we're at in, like, all sorts of Republican talking points. They're obsessed with genitals. They're obsessed with poo and pee and who's doing what, where. I mean, it's all very seven-year-old, right? And if it was your seven-year-old, you'd sit them down and you'd say, listen, fella, we can't be screaming this shit out loud.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:16:11]
Yeah, it's like preschool, preschool-level stuff where it's like, I poop on you, huh? Like, that's where we're at.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:16:48]
Yeah, or nostalgia posting about playgrounds, right? Did you, there was like, a big post on x.com a few weeks ago where somebody was like, look at what they took from us. Like, I just want to get back. I don't care how many people we have to kill on the other side of the world, I want to get back to this. And it was a picture of a current-day playground. I could walk to five of them from here.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:17:11]
That has been really fascinating to me is, like, the way that, like, you know, culture and like, nostalgia, you know, like the '90s have come back. I feel like we're doing nostalgia for like, 2012 right now, but it's like, the way that that is, like, transformed. Like, you know, five years ago they were like, posting pictures of Norman Rockwell paintings. It's like, this is what America was like before immigration. And now it's like a picture of a GameStop, like, circa 2008. It's like, this is what America was like before immigration.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:17:20]
Yes, yeah, this like, PS2 nostalgia, like, just go get one.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:17:20]
Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're in a bad place because of nostalgia. I mean, we're so nostalgic that, like, we're doing our childhood again. And I don't want to speed-run our childhood again, another war that was speed-running my parents' childhood. All right. But a big part of this is that the people who have been involved in at least the last two, they're still in charge now. No consequences. We kept them, right? We were like, all right, like, you didn't really yell too much about Iraq, even though you grew up during Vietnam, right? Like, and now you're doing it again. Holy shit.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:17:41]
Right? It's not, because, you know who was working in that GameStop? Probably an immigrant. Like, what are you talking about? Probably at least one.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:18:11]
Yeah, yeah, they were already like, not this again, and now we're in the same position going, no, come on.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:18:22]
Yeah, no consequences.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:18:30]
Yeah. Well, yeah, I think, like, there is a really fascinating thing happening where, like, for reasons that, I mean, they don't escape me, I understand it, but it is, like, really weird to watch, is John Cornyn has kind of become like enemy number one for a big, like, a non-zero percentage of the grassroots right in Texas for, like, a few things. Like, one of them is that, I believe it was after Uvalde, the Uvalde shooting. He helped pass a bipartisan, it was some, like, one of those gun laws that's like, you know, it was a red flag gun law, I believe. And this just made him persona non grata among a lot of those people, right? Like, it was like, you can't do this. You can't concede anything. And I think also he represents this kind of older guard in Texas politics, right? Like, he was kind of the old, the good old boys club, you know, obviously he's a Republican, but, you know, he'll work with Democrats. I think he actually, he had some line not that long ago about Jasmine Crockett where he referred to her as, like, his dancing partner in the House. And Ken Paxton made an AI ad about that, where it's like a parody of Dancing with the Stars, you know. But like, I think, generally, we're kind of seeing, just like, on the Democratic side, there's this kind of fury among, like, you know, to get rid of the establishment that they see as kind of ineffective. You're seeing that with John Cornyn, to where it's like, you know, he's had his time. It's time to go. It's time to put in this guy who is, you know, way more to the right than John Cornyn, which is funny now, because now you have John Cornyn who is, like, you know, taking all of these positions. Like, he came out in favor of the SAVE AMERICA Act, I think he came out the other day, like, in favor of banning mifepristone, some bill in the Senate to do that. So, like, my thing is, like, you know, just, I'm a laywoman, is, I don't understand why you would vote for John Cornyn if, like, Ken Paxton already believes this stuff. But that's kind of the dynamic that's playing out. And for some reason, Trump won't endorse either of them.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:20:21]
That's weird, is it because they're both like MAGA and so he doesn't really care?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:21:21]
Yeah, he's, I think, like, back before the primary, when there were three candidates, he said something like, he was like, I just love all three of them, or whatever. So, you know, I think he just,

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:21:31]
Oh, he's so funny the way he talks always, where he's like, I just love them. They're so special. They're just like, beautiful boys.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:21:37]
Yeah, he was like, those are my beautiful boys, you know, I can't, you can't make me pick. It's like, it's my beautiful boys. But, you know, it's an interesting bind, genuinely, because, you know, you have Ken Paxton, who has been one of Trump's, like, staunchest allies, you know, he's been super effective in, like, changing national policy, you know, by suing the federal government. But then, like, John Cornyn is really liked in the Senate. He's also, like, he brings in so much money campaigning. And so, you know, it is real rock and a hard place. It's kind of like, you know, they have to choose between two people they really like. So I don't, I genuinely don't know what's going to happen.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:21:42]
He won't talk about his own sons that way, but he'll say it about some random politician from Texas. He's the son I never had. You know?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:21:42]
But, you know, no, they can't. Yeah, this was the other thing is, so Trump was supposed to endorse. I'm sorry. I feel like I'm talking so much.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:22:27]
It's truly anybody's game, and neither one of them is gonna drop out and endorse the other one at this point.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:22:39]
No, that's why we brought you here. You're the guest. Tell us things.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:22:39]
Yeah, so Trump was supposed to endorse. He had said he was going to endorse one of them and the other one was supposed to drop out. Well, the deadline for either one of them to drop out passed, I believe it was Tuesday, so that's not going to happen anymore. So I guess he just didn't do it. I guess he just lied. He was like, never mind.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:23:05]
So we might perceive, as you sort of alluded to, that at this point, like, any sort of non-partisan or like reasonableness is now taken as just absolute weakness, right? Like, you can't even say that you're, like, cool with Jasmine Crockett, because that means that you may have, like, the woke zombie bite, you know, like you may be hiding the woke zombie bite under your sleeve, right? Like, you might have caught it dancing with her. And so we need somebody who is so MAGA that he also commits terrible crimes. You know, that is, like, more on brand for us, right? But like, we can't admit that. But also, like, white-collar crimes are illustrative that I'm smart, right? And like, blue-collar crimes are representative that, like, Black people are bad, right? Like, so it's like all fucked up.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:23:37]
No, the mind virus. Oh, no.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:24:05]
Yeah. And what's interesting, this is my, like, my nail on that, is like, Ken Paxton genuinely is the only person I feel like who has the thing that Trump has where he can get away with anything, because he's done the exact same thing with his, you know, various, let's say, ethically dubious shenanigans. You know, it's like, he's, you know, this is all a witch hunt. Like, they're not after me. They're after you. I'm just in the way. And like, it seems to be working for the most part, for him, you know, it just nothing sinks him. Everything bounces off of him. He's just, he's lucky like that. I don't get it, but it works.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:24:22]
It's a tried and true tactic. It really is, to say, like, oh, you know, they're after you, I'm just in the way. It's like, I'm a hero and a victim at the same time. That's just, oh, it's delicious to people. They love it.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:24:37]
There's something that was called the credibility gap once upon a time, and it arose thanks to another Texas politician, Lyndon Johnson, right, who was famous for lying constantly about almost everything. And I've talked about this before, but it seems as though that in some instances, and with some individuals, that the credibility gap doesn't stick to them as people, it sticks to the institutions so that they're able to claim that it's all bullshit, it's all lies. And people believe that they're not liars, right, even though they're a part of these institutions, but that the institutions themselves are just so filled with lies, with liars, with lying, with corruption, that, right, I'm in the way. They want to get to you, and I'm in the way of that, and so they're gonna nail me down, and then they're gonna come for you later. It's really remarkable gymnastics that you got to put yourself through to get there, though.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:26:12]
Yeah, it really is, and I think that dynamic was really on display during Paxton's impeachment trial a few years ago. You know, you had these employees in his office who were blowing the whistle on some of his corruption. And these were not, you know, woke liberals or whatever, right, like, these were, like, Heritage Foundation guys, dyed-in-the-wool, hard-right conservative lawyers, down with the mission. And, you know, Ken Paxton had to come out and say, like, these guys are gay and woke and coming after me, you know? And it was a real, it was really bizarre to watch, if you know who any of these people are and their careers. But, yeah, like you said, it's, you know, anything at all to kind of get out of your own little jams, including just painting it like, you know, this whole system is corrupt, and I'm not a symptom of it. I'm just, you know, in it, you know. Yeah, I'm gonna drain the swamp. Exactly. And it's, you know, it's funny to hear Ken Paxton kind of talk about this stuff. There was a good Wall Street Journal investigation not that long ago that he, like, doubled or tripled his net worth while he was in the Attorney General's Office. So this is a guy who's made, like, tremendous amounts of money, you know, in this swamp. But, no, you know, it's not his fault. It's the system. Different things.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:26:47]
I'm going to clean it up. Actually, I'm going to drain the swamp.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:27:36]
Sure, that's so fun, how it's like personal responsibility for everyone else, right? Like, don't, sis, you can't blame systemic issues for, like, your hardships. But for me, it's because, like, well, look, I just can't fight all this.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:27:50]
Yeah, yeah. And you're seeing a sort of, you know, return of what we might call the paper government, right? That sort of pay-for-government. That was, we saw a lot in Reconstruction and Gilded Age times where everyone is getting some type of handout, some type of money. Everything comes with a cost. You want the contract, you gotta grease the palm a little bit.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:28:26]
Maybe they both win, and maybe they have to share the seat and, like, the microphone together. You know?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:28:29]
And yeah, they have to, kind of like, yeah, you know, Mom says it's my turn with the Senate seat. I mean, I think Paxton is probably going to win just because, like, I think a lot of the people who did not vote for him last time, who voted for the other guy that was in the primary, will probably vote for him. I just, I think it's kind of just inevitable, it feels like. But, I mean, I don't know. I genuinely don't know, because John Cornyn was not supposed to make a runoff, so they're spending a lot of money to keep him viable. So it's, you know, I don't know. I got no clue, but my gut says Ken Paxton. But who knows?

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:29:11]
Okay, you're good, says Ken Paxton. But then that sets up almost an intra-Texas, like, Christian crusade, right? Because then you have James Talarico, who is like, Jesus says that I should love you, and Ken Paxton, who's like, Jesus says that taxes are too high. So what happens then, Gwen, in your esteemed opinion?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:29:39]
Well, well, yeah. I mean, so the Talarico-Paxton, should that happen, is kind of like, that's been the nightmare scenario for Texas Republicans and national Republicans for a while, right? Because, you know, Republicans, if you remember, spent a lot of energy pushing Jasmine Crockett into the race, just because she was seen as the, you know, as the weaker candidate, right, almost like Kamala Harris, in the sense of, like, somebody that we can, you know, paint as super crazy and, kind of, it'll be a layup. But Talarico, I think they are worried about him. If you look at just, like, you know, not to talk about numbers and statistics, but like, in the primary, right, he won a lot of, he won pretty big in the primary among a lot of the Latino areas in like South Texas that Trump won in 2024. And so he's kind of seen as, you know, a pretty strong candidate. It's weird because, like, privately, they will, you know, say, off the record, like, we're worried about this guy, but then in public, they're like, he's a gay, woke vegan who wants to trans your kids. So it's kind of funny. But, yeah, I mean,

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:30:45]
Right? Because that's what you've got to say, like, that's where we're at now. No matter who he was, you just have to say that.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:30:51]
Right, right? You can't say that you're afraid of the soy boy, right? You've got to paint him as all of these things, but in reality, I think that he does possess a lot of qualities that play well in Texas. And yes,

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:31:09]
Right? We've played clips of him because of our library episodes, right? Because he got some attention for the way he handled his opposition to a lot of those censorship bills. He did a good job, and people liked it. So I get why they'd be nervous.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:31:27]
Yeah, I think he's very interesting in that, like, he, like you said, has a lot of those, like, he's definitely different from a lot of other candidates that have run. He almost has Beto vibes. I think where he really, like, when he talks, you can kind of tell he really believes what he says, right? Like, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't totally come off as shifty. He's very, I would say, like, strong in his convictions. I mean, and so that, I think, presents a very unique challenge where, like, the other day, you know, they played clips, a clip of him talking at a church where he was talking about, like, you know, Jesus is an immigrant detained by ICE. He's a person who's having his Social Security wages, you know, taken away. And Republicans played this on Twitter to be like, look at this woke crazy guy. And he just retweeted it with, like, "I endorse this message," you know. And so I do think that it's going to present a little bit of a challenge to kind of paint him as this crazy guy that's out of step with Texas when he's been a known quality, and at least among liberals, people really like him for those exact things that he says. Yeah.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:32:32]
Hmm, well, authenticity is something that we're always going on about here regarding not only ourselves, right, but in terms of politics. And I laughed just now, not because the information was not very important or very accurate, but because that is the Republicans' worst fear, is a Democrat who has convictions, right? Like, somebody who stands up and is like, actually, this is how it is going to have to be, and I'm going to hold this firm just as firmly as you do, right? They hate that because they're used to the mealy-mouths and the people that we're always bitching about here on this show.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:33:12]
Well, yeah, they've enjoyed a really cushy situation for a long time, which is where a Democrat says something, they go, oh my God, you communist, and the Democrat goes, well, let me moderate, right? I don't want to, like, freak everybody out. And to have politicians in other places too, not just Talarico, but to have politicians be like, you can say what you want, but I know what I need to be doing in my job, is pretty awesome, because that's a silly own goal to do. To be like, oh, the Republicans are saying bad things about me in a race in which we're opponents, I better, like, adjust to make them happy. Why? Like, why do you want to make the other team happy? Yeah, yep.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:33:57]
Yes, yeah. And I think that's like, a very interesting distinction we're seeing. And, like, you know, I've done some writing, I think, especially on the topic du jour of LGBTQ and specifically like, trans rights, right? Like, I think last year, you know, 2024, across the board, you kind of saw a lot of Democrats saying, like, you know, we took these crazy positions, and now we need to moderate. And it's been interesting, at least so far, it's still early, right, to see somebody like Talarico in a place like Texas come out and say, like, no, actually, I stand by these things I've said in the past about God loving trans kids. And, yeah, exactly. And I think that that's very interesting. And I think it's kind of an interesting trend to watch, you know, and not just with Talarico. I think you saw it with somebody like Zohran Mamdani, or, you know, other people who I think are no longer apologizing for the things that they believe in, which is very interesting.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:34:29]
Yeah, they were true then, and they're true now.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:34:49]
Yeah, I'm going to make a really old reference now, which is to Game of Thrones. But I'm old, so I'm allowed. But you know, when Arya is, like, just going through the names of people that she's, like, these people, they're on my kill list. Like, not a kill list, to be fair, legally speaking, but just like my personal, I'm not going to forget you list, is of those Democrats and pundits who said exactly that line, Gwen, about, like, we took some crazy positions, and they're like, 80/20 issues, and we really need to, like, moderate or whatever. Like, those people. Like, in my brain, I'm just like, Gavin Newsom, Seth Moulton, like, Jonathan Knight, like, oh, how does it hold up?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:35:12]
For it. That's actually, you say old, that's funny. I am, why, I am watching, like, rewatching Game of Thrones right now. So that's actually very topical. It's fine. Yeah.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:35:47]
House of the Dragon. Yeah.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:35:47]
Yeah, we're watching whatever the one after is, the court of stuff and items. I can't remember what the, the dragon scale and the houndstooth. House of the guy who flew around and went, wow. Like, yeah, it's got Doctor Who in it. I don't know. It's fun. I'm not, like, you know, shitting myself about it. Yeah.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:35:58]
It's pretty good. I like it. But I think that is a good analogy. Like, you know, I think it's interesting. And like, one of my things, you know, as a trans person, that I find really interesting is this kind of talk of, like, this whole thing that you kind of see among the third way, kind of moderate Dem types, is, like, they love to be like, the groups, and they love to talk about the groups and the questionnaire. And like, they're just talking about trans people and, like, that ACLU ad. But like, they don't, for some reason they love to couch it in, oh, and some other stuff too. And it's interesting, because it's like, I know you're talking about me, right? Like, it's very interesting. Like, I know you're talking about trans people, but they don't want to just come out and say that. And you're seeing some of those people, you're seeing some of those people even, like, you know, I think Josh Barro or whoever is, like, all over, he loves to be like, this Talarico guy is going to lose because he said God is non-binary, like, five years ago. And I don't know, it's an interesting obsession among those guys. Like, that's one of my tangents I've been thinking about a lot.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:37:07]
Yeah, oh, yeah. Because, oh. Or, like, what was Bill Maher's thing? Like, you want to lose an election every time, try telling parents they come in last in a "what happens to my kids" competition, which, first of all, as a sentence is unparsable. Like, try that again, Bill. I know it because it was on, like, Club Random when he's already so drunk and so high that he can't string together five words. But like, truly, have the standards fallen so low? But like, to be like, oh, it's the electoralism framing of, like, it's not that I'm saying that I hate trans people. It's not that I'm saying that, like, trans kids don't deserve a chance to be self-actualized the way other kids get to be, right? It's that I'm just saying that it's gonna lose you the election, and then the fascists are gonna get in, and then they will actually round up all the trans people. And it's like, well, not if you try selling it like you mean it. Like, not if you commit to the truth of the matter.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:38:02]
I'm still recovering from the idea that this person clearly thinks that God is a man. I'm still stunned about that. What the hell are you talking about? You clearly have never read any Augustine, all right.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:38:13]
Yeah, well, that is the other thing. It's like, I tweeted about this a few times, but,

**Gwen Howerton** [00:38:24]
Well, it's this is a thing where, like, yeah, there was, you know, back to AI, they put together, the Republican Party put together an ad where it was an AI ad of James Talarico, like, reading all these tweets that he made in 2023, and one of them is when, you know, he said God is non-binary when he was, you know, defending trans kids on the floor of the Texas House in 2023. But like, it is interesting, because it's like, you know, it almost feels like we all deserve this, to be talking about whether or not God has pronouns and genitals. It's like, this is how far we've fallen. Like, you know, just, like, public discourse.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:39:03]
Yeah, right, the God that I don't even believe in, I'm supposed to stake out a position on, like, his, her, or their, or zer, or fae, like, I don't know. I don't care.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:39:15]
No, no, I'll settle this. I'll settle this right now. He's inconceivable in the most literal sense. Okay, it's impossible to conceive of it, right? It's impossible to conceive of it.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:39:26]
Wasn't that the point of him, like, flashing Moses on the hill, or whatever it was, or Moses was like, please let me see. And he's like, you'll fucking die, dude.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:39:34]
You can't.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:39:35]
Yeah, I had to show up as this burning bush, because if I showed you what I really look like you would fucking die. But this is,

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:39:41]
You would just simply die on the spot. Yeah.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:39:42]
That's why you need the intercession of the saints in the first place, because they're the only ones that can communicate with, anyway, not the point. The point is, why are we litigating this?

**Gwen Howerton** [00:39:53]
What we're getting into in the Texas Senate race. Like, this is what we're litigating. You know.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:39:57]
These are the questions that are, like, pertinent to the lives and livelihoods of Texans.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:40:03]
You know, it's funny, you know, I went to a cafe the other day, and, like, everybody in there was like, does God have a penis? Like, what are God's chromosomes? You know? So this is really serious stuff.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:40:08]
That cafe must have had, like, a blue-haired barista with tattoos and stuff too, probably. Because, and it probably made Gad Saad's wife really upset, or whatever the fuck that story was. I don't know if anyone, that's a really deep cut. But that's right. That's it. He's a Canadian professor anyway. Who cares? We don't need to listen to him. But that's the anti-woke professor who was like, I went into a cafe and the barista had, like, short blue hair, and I didn't know what pronouns to use, and I got so scared, I had to leave. And it's like, that sounds like a you problem, buddy. Like, just order your coffee and go. When have you ever used a barista's pronouns? You're talking to them in the second person. Like, you're saying "you." The pronouns are "you." The pronouns are, I would like a coffee from you. There's no, like, third-person pronoun you have to use, right? You don't even have to use a single pronoun if you don't want to. Yeah, iced coffee with cream, please. Thanks.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:40:26]
Yeah, that's like, I'm not totally sure, like, none of those words are in the Bible.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:40:57]
They have a name tag. They have a name tag.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:41:02]
Yeah, like, I'm, yeah, you say, like, please, thank you. And, like, okay, like, I'm speaking five words to people who make my coffee. Yeah.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:41:18]
I mean, I'm very polite. I like to say hi, but again, you just say a person's name. And you think that a college professor from Canada would know that, wouldn't you? You think that,

**Gwen Howerton** [00:41:29]
There are too many Canadians talking about American politics, you know. Too many Canadians just in general, like,

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:41:39]
Yeah, they have enough going on. You know, it's a big country with a lot of people in it now. I don't really worry about that.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:41:36]
They're blasting us right now. Gwen, they're blasting us right now. Okay, so, okay, let's get to some of the other terrible things going on in the beautiful state of Texas. I have actually been to UT before. I've been to the Johnson museum. I have great memories of Austin. I have not been to H-Town. Although I would like to, I would like to get chopped and screwed, as the kids used to say once upon a time. You got it. You gotta listen to some music. Caitlin, it's total, it's very,

**Gwen Howerton** [00:42:01]
It's very cool from what I hear, yeah.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:42:13]
Jesus Christ, Trent, what the fuck. Run that by me one more time.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:42:23]
Oh, sorry. And here's the thing, as, like, I identify as a Southwesterner because I grew up in Arizona, right? But I have no idea what's happening in Texas. I got nothing.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:42:35]
Swisha House is no longer happening, but Paul Wall, I believe, still has a grill shop in,

**Gwen Howerton** [00:42:42]
Yeah, but yeah. Paul Wall and Johnny Dang, they still, you know, they're still going strong. Paul Wall is awesome because he is a real, one of my friends works at a Guitar Center here in Houston, and he is the people's champ. He'll go in there all the time. And just, he'll go in there and talk to my friend and buy a guitar for his son. Like, he's the people's champ. No, I love Houston. It's underrated.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:42:52]
You're telling me he's the people's champ. That's what you're telling me. Okay, there we go.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:43:02]
Well, oh, wow. Okay, so Houston has all these, like, cool celebrities and stuff. Meanwhile, in Phoenix, we have Alice Cooper, who is somehow anti-trans despite being Alice Cooper. Anyway, buddy, what are you doing? What do you think your whole brand was built off of? And he's like, ew, gender nonconformity, gross.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:43:27]
Yeah, Alice Cooper should become, like, one of those guys who's like, if I had tried to do my whole thing back then, now they would have put me on puberty blockers. That should be, did Alice Cooper, yeah, salty.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:43:38]
Right? Yeah, that's not true. My guy.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:43:41]
Well, I mean, this is just more evidence that if Jim Morrison had not died as an asshole when he was young, he would be an asshole now. And I stick to that.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:43:53]
Alas.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:44:00]
Yes, yes, definitely, yeah. So, this is a great gear shift. So starting April 1, and I wrote about this this week, there is a new policy in the Texas jail system where they're restricting the types of books that inmates can receive from the outside. Starting April 1, they're not going to let people receive hardcover books or books in used condition, because in their telling, they're like, people are smuggling in all these drugs through hardcover books. And so, you know, all the books that inmates receive have to be softcover now. And that might seem like, okay, what's the big deal? But, you know, I spoke to this group here in Austin. They're called Inside Books, and they're the biggest book project for inmates in the state of Texas. And they were telling me that this rule change is basically going to decimate their business, because it's actually really hard to find the books that inmates request in that specific format that the Texas jail agency wants now. You know, if you think about it, most of what inmates request are educational materials. So it's like textbooks, trade books, legal books. That stuff doesn't come in paperback easily. It's not easily found. And so, you know, it's kind of one more, like you said, Trent, cracking down on people's behavior in Texas prisons, which are, you know, notoriously brutal for a lot of reasons.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:45:47]
Right, but also, like, the reason they want those educational texts is to prepare themselves, to try to support themselves when they get out, right? And so you're also curbing their ability to build a life after, which is already so deeply hampered. So,

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:46:03]
But again, this just follows the same idea that we don't want our taxes to help educate children. We don't want them to go educate prisoners. Prisoners shouldn't get anything, right? Why are we giving prisoners trans health care? Right? Like, why are we doing anything for anybody? Like, if the only reason I want these people in this location is because I want them away from me, right? I don't want them rehabilitated. I don't want them learning. I don't want them healthy. In fact, it might be part of the punishment if the place I put them in is a dungeon, right? Because bad people deserve dungeons. Just horrifying.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:46:46]
Yeah, it's like the incredible piece of literature Holes by Louis Sachar, right? You take a bad boy, you put them out in the desert, and you make them dig holes from sun up to sundown, and he comes back a good boy. That's, like, apparently our theory of rehabilitation.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:46:53]
Yeah. And I think it should be noted, you know, you brought up the dungeon. I mean, most of these prisons aren't air-conditioned, right, which is a whole other issue. And, Trent, that has kind of been the argument, you know, there are people who have died in Texas jails because they're not air-conditioned. I mean, I don't know if you guys have been to Texas in the summer. It's really hot, you know. People will boil to death in these jails. You know, there's a big lawsuit going on right now, and if you read it, it's absolutely harrowing. But that had been the argument, right, among people who are opposed to putting air conditioning in prisons, is, I believe former state senator John Whitmire, who's now the mayor of Houston, he said a couple years ago, he was like, if you want to stay cool, don't commit a crime. And so I think, yeah, it really is this kind of real brutal attitude.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:47:29]
Yeah, yeah. Jesus Christ. We love to take stuff that people need to live and classify it as a luxury when those people are, like, undesirables or not me, you know. I need air conditioning to stay alive. You just want it because you're, you know, demanding.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:48:11]
Yeah. And I think, you know, there's so many issues at stake here. Back to the books thing, there was a statistic I cited in my story that I wrote about this that, like, anywhere from three to 9,000 people in the Texas jail system are believed to be wrongfully convicted, and, you know, they shouldn't be in jail. And so a big issue that these people need is they need legal materials and legal resources. And, you know, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice will tell you, they're like, we provide this stuff. We have a law library. But a lot of these people, they need specific books. They need specific case law. That stuff only comes in hardcover, you know, those legal volumes. And so again, this is really going to make it hard for those people to get the stuff that they need to assist in their own defense and stuff like that. Yeah.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:48:46]
Because, of course, they're not getting, like, super adequate defense from outside of the prison. They have to do this shit themselves.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:49:04]
No, absolutely not. Like, if they had an attorney at all, that kind of stuff.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:49:11]
Yeah, just terrible. And of course, you know, we're seeing an increase in the state killing people, right, in death row sentences that are executed and people that are dead. Texas, Alabama. These are just the sort of walking back civilization to barbarism and calling it a more advanced state. It is deeply, deeply disturbing. And well, Gwen, you are just the best, and we appreciate you so much. Can you talk to us about the state of the LGBTQ AI community in Texas right now?

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:49:53]
Right. You keep saying AI, and it is making me laugh every time, because then I am just thinking about artificial intelligence. LGBTQ, oh. LGBTQ. Alan Iverson, okay, yes.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:50:08]
No, when I say it, I think of Allen Iverson, yeah.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:50:15]
Yeah, we actually, well, AI and Allen Iverson, like, you know, as you know, all gay people, we all get together on, like, a Zoom, and so we actually put those in the acronym. But, I mean, I don't even know quite what to say, because, like, I would say, Texas has been really at the forefront of this anti-queer, anti-trans kind of crusade you're seeing everywhere now. I would say the state of it is, you know, pretty bleak right now. Like, it is, you know, obviously, all of these anti-trans laws have been passed here in the state of Texas. Currently, a couple months ago, the state Supreme Court basically greenlit, through some weird procedural thing, judges from denying, like, that allowed judges to deny gay couples getting married based on religious convictions. I mean, the state has gone all in on this stuff. And people here that I talk to are really afraid. You know, I know lots of people who are, you know, trying to leave. They're trying to find shelter. You know, I know somebody trying to get Canadian citizenship. So it is real. It is real hard for a lot of these people right now, to say the least.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:51:29]
Yeah. Oh, and you know, in case anybody has missed the news, Canada has changed their standards for what makes you eligible for citizenship, so if you are descended from anyone who is a Canadian citizen, you can apply for citizenship. I just want everyone to know, because that might be an avenue for you if you're trying to escape.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:51:51]
Yeah, I know some people doing that, and I think it's hard because, you know, it's one of those things where, like, you know, I'm a trans woman, and I have a lot of people who tell me, like, you know, how do you keep living here? How do you keep doing it? And it's bizarre, because, you know, you hear all this rhetoric from, like, in Texas, our state lawmakers, and all this stuff about, like, you know, just this absolute crusade against trans and queer people that they've gone in on. But then, like, you know, I go out in public and people could care less. So it's a very weird kind of split, I think. And, you know, it sucks that people feel like they have to leave, because it's like, I think there's a lot of great things about the state of Texas. But, you know, like we talked about at the beginning, it's the people in charge. And I think, but yeah, it's very bleak. And I think the legislative session is coming up next year, and it will be very interesting to see kind of how they further all of this stuff. You know.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:52:49]
Yeah, for sure, and yeah, I mean, that is heartening, that we can still rely on people to be reasonable and positive and not these grotesque caricatures that stand up on stage and tell us who we should be angry at, who we should despise. Certainly nobody deserves that sort of alienation. Yeah.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:53:22]
Yeah, and I think that's a great way to put it. And I think too, it's like, you know, we talked about electoralism. I think that the salience of this stuff in both directions is kind of hard because it's like, on the one hand, I really don't think people see, like, oh my God, Riley Gaines came in fifth place in a swim meet a million years ago, so I need to vote for Donald Trump. But on the other hand, I think that people just don't get how bad it is to be trans in a place like Texas right now. And I think it does not motivate them in the other direction. And I think for people who are activists and trying to figure out how to square that circle, it's really hard. But, you know, there are a lot of great people here who are still sticking around and trying to change things for the better. And, you know, I talk to those people through work, or I know them for whatever, and it is heartening. You know, there are people who really love Texas, and they really love being queer in a place like Texas. And I think, sorry, I'm trailing off a little bit, but I think that it does matter, and it is heartening, you know.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:53:19]
Yeah, the tough thing is just when you get to the voting booth, right. Like, a person can be perfectly reasonable in person, and then once they have their ballot in front of them, that anti-trans rhetoric might still work on them, right? And so then they're like, well, maybe I'm actually just stopping the bad ones from doing the bad stuff. And so, like, that nice person that I met at the cafe yesterday, that's not really relevant to it. It's about, you know, protecting the children or whatever. Yeah.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:54:50]
That's okay, yeah, and it makes Texas as cool as it is, you know, the fact that those people are there. So it would be sad to lose them.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:54:56]
Right? The Republicans are very much more like the Catholic Church. They say the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, and it works. That has always worked. That's why the church does it, because you have to say the same thing over and over again. And if you do, you start to get goofy numbers like, you know, 75%, 70% of respondents on a poll saying that they support the SAVE AMERICA Act, right? I mean, and they're supporting something that is going to make their lives more difficult, right? But you've said it so many times. You've said it over and over again. You've said that they got,

**Gwen Howerton** [00:55:47]
Oh, of course, of course, I want to save America.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:55:44]
And what a name, SAVE AMERICA. I want to save America. Yeah, I love America, that's right, and we're both, so,

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:55:50]
You'd have to be a communist or a terrorist to not want to save America, right? Well, welcome to the number one non-Texas, Texas podcast run by a communist terrorist. Well, there you go. Gwen Howerton, absolutely brilliant. We appreciate your hard work so much. 1,000% you'll come back on this show. You'll tell us what's cooking at the Chron, at Houston, at H-Town. Maybe we can get the people's champ on. That's the teaser for the future. Gwen, could you please tell all of the folks where they can find all of your wonderful, informative work, where they can read your ranting, where they can see your holiday pictures. If you post any, give us the tea. Please.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:56:12]
Thank you.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:56:40]
Oh, amazing. Thanks, Gwen. I don't think that you did. I think you did an amazing job, and we're really glad to have, you know, on-the-ground information coming in, as opposed to simply the internet. That's not as good. So thank you for that.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:56:46]
Yeah, I mean, you can follow me on Twitter. Unfortunately. You can follow me on Blue Sky. I'm at kissphoria. You can find me, my work on chron.com. You can find me, you know, you can shout my name into the night and I will appear. But yeah, thank you guys for having me on. This was a lot of fun. Hopefully I didn't totally embarrass myself.

**Trent R. Nelson** [00:57:23]
Absolutely. And well, you know that understanding a question is half of an answer, and this is, of course, Half The Answer. And well, until next time, take care.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:57:23]
Yeah, thank you guys, this is awesome.

**Caitlin M. Green** [00:57:36]
Bye.

**Gwen Howerton** [00:57:37]
Bye.